The Two Sts John

[LorrB]

Jun 2, 2011 6:22:32 GMT 9.5 @tamrin said:

Jun 1, 2011 14:23:31 GMT 9.5 paul said:

Returning to the original question, I note the "John gesture" that appears so often in Leonardo da Vinci. I also note that the same gesture appears in the Rose Croix degree - particularly those rituals that do not use swords much.

Could there be a John undercurrent?

Indeed there could. I have an excellent book on the subject, "The Fourth Gospel and the Eighteenth Degree," by Arthur Brown, 1956, Rockliff, London. The degree also appears to have a Mithraic undercurrent

Mithraic - that might send all those Christians into disarray Tamrin

I have a bee in the bonnet about that degree being restricted to Christians - well it is in the male craft.

imo - that is making part of Freemasonry religious. I see a lot of Qabalistic symbolism in the Rose Croix.

I must check out availability of that book... sounds very interesting.

[tamrin]

Jun 2, 2011 10:45:21 GMT 9.5 LorrB said:

I must check out availability of that book... sounds very interesting.

Let me know if you can't obtain it.

[LorrB]

I just did a search - good used ones are from $112 to $130 yikes.
A poor condition copy, but readable - from UK = $60
Might have to think about it a day or two
Must be good.

[paul]

The Hurstville City Council seems to be the only public library with a copy - best chance of a cheap interlibrary loan.

[scharyn]

Hi!
Since many Christian rituals and celebrations are based on earlier ritual, I personally believe that we should look to pre-christian ritual for deeper meanings. Therefore I'm inclined to the equinox view. Even the ritual itself, being about renewal, seems based upon earlier ritual.
However, my over-riding view is that we must always bear in mind that ALL spiritual paths lead to the same goal. I believe this goal to be unity.

[paul]

> Therefore I'm inclined to the equinox view.

Since quite a number of esoteric groups concealed themselves in Masonry, it may be common for several meanings to be intended.

Perhaps the test is: what spiritual energies can be moved by the application of this interpretation.

>ALL spiritual paths lead to the same goal

This is an interesting proposition and worthy of its own thread.

[paul]

In Goethe's theory of color, the interface between light and dark is what produces colors. This produces two different "rainbows", one with green at the centre and the other with pink.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnfVlENcHbU&index=1&list=PL2pcLVDSX0l3HtxqU-M67Fvt-THwN56RM


From this we might consider that there are two quite different balance points between light and dark.

And since the principles of nature manifest in all beings, we can then ask how such a choice of balance points manifest in humans?

Here is a relevant thread.

a406.proboards.com/thread/1272/brethren-shadowed-light

[paul]

I noticed that a few times after being in a church with all the windows a gold-brown tone. Each time I left the building everything was too blue for a while.

I deduced that the brain knows what is a proper colour balance and readjusts what the eye is seeing.

[LorrB]

Artists know that if they want to find colours opposite to each other on the colour wheel all they have to do is stare at one colour for a period of time and then look away with closed eyes ... presto, the colour opposite on the colour wheel appears.

[LorrB]

Jan 14, 2015 23:17:44 GMT 9.5 scharyn said:

Hi!
Since many Christian rituals and celebrations are based on earlier ritual, I personally believe that we should look to pre-christian ritual for deeper meanings. Therefore I'm inclined to the equinox view. Even the ritual itself, being about renewal, seems based upon earlier ritual.
However, my over-riding view is that we must always bear in mind that ALL spiritual paths lead to the same goal. I believe this goal to be unity.

Hi Scharyn - LOVELY TO SEE YOU HERE!! Stay around, I think we might be able to have a few good discussions on this forum.
See below ... science, religion and mystery traditions ... same thing, different language used?

Prof. Vaclav Hlavaty of Indiana University Gradual Institute of Applied Mathematics recently achieved solutions to mathematical equations in Einstein’s latest Unified Field Theory that revolutionize our concepts of energy, motion and matter.

Dr Hlavaty’s solutions to the Einstein equations reveal that electro-magnetism is the basis of the Universe . . . which goes beyond Einstein’s attempt to unify gravitation and electro-magnetism . . . the twin forces in which he believes the Universe manifests itself. If Dr. Hlavaty’s solution is correct, the basis of all cosmic forces – gravitation as well as matter and energy – is built up of an all-pervading, all-embracing mathematical field.

So-called gravity is created by the vortex of the particle itself and is related to the density and also the size of the vortex or electro-magnetic field. Thus the gravity exhibited by a sub-atomic particle may be greater than suspected at the present time. It is present as pressure toward the centre of the field. Therefore, one might think of gravity as acting inward at right angles to the energy level or shells. And to make a broader statement, we might say that all of the particles of the second class are acting at right angles to the spherical energy levels or shell, but the photons act outward and are given off as various forms of electro-magnetic energy. Both photons and gravitons modify the motion of their respective nuclear body in is role as a satellite to some larger body. *

If we were to try to symbolise, allegorise or duplicate with movements etc. all of the above information, might we come up with . . .

Circumambulation
Point within a Circle
Crosses
Square and Compasses
Sacred Flames
Light references

I am being reminded repeatedly of late about the science of religion (and the religion of science).

*from Other Tongues - Other Flesh
by George Hunt Williamson

[LorrB]

From the same source...

In the case of the atom these waves are produced by parallel lines of force passing between each other at right angles with a rhythmic ‘breathing’ resulting from the positive-negative strain. The positive lines of force are composed of positively charged particles, and the negative lines of force of negative particles intersect them at right angles forming a flux effect. This intersection, when the lines are of equal density and vibration, forms an atom consisting of protons and electrons and an electro-magnetic field.

The Mosaic Pavement might illustrate this.

… and the four Tassles ? … see below

The Four Forces are: Static-Magnetic Field as in a bar magnet; Electro-Static Field, as in a charged capacitor; Electro-Magnetic Wave, as radio waves, light, heat, etc; Resonating Electro-magnetic Field, like that of all celestial bodies (operating in a vortex), space craft propulsion field, the basis of life, the elemental life.

[paul]

It is probably fair to say that atomic particles are formed by the interaction of two more subtle forces. The same principle operates at macro levels and is demonstrated by the mosaic pavement.

The tassels, apparently being in the corners of the ceilings of some European lodges, may be of a different order of manifestation. For myself I rather like the 4 rivers of Eden as a partial unveiling of the 4 tassels.

Meanwhile:

Numbers 15:37 The LORD said to Moses, "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: `Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel.

And Deuteronomy 22:12

You shall make yourself tassels on the four corners of your garment with which you cover yourself.

[pointwithinacircle]

Jun 1, 2011 13:33:11 GMT 9.5 Henka said:

Jun 1, 2011 12:51:49 GMT 9.5 LorrB said:

henka... if you are correct in your assumption, why would the equinoxes be referred to as saints and not just equinoxes? I don't see a need for veiling.

In the Christianized culture of Scotland it did. Astronomical knowledge was frowned upon by the Church - remember Gallileo? The ritual is designed to impart knowledge in a veiled manner, so that it may be transmitted down the generations regardless of ability to interpret it. Those who find the key will know that which is intended.

I also used to think that the early church frowned upon astronomical knowledge.  But now I am not so sure.  As I understand it Easter is officially celebrated on the first Sunday, after the first full moon, after the Spring Equinox.  And doesn't the Vatican maintain a department of astronomy to keep track of exactly when this occurs?   I now think that that the relationship between astronomy and the church has less to do with religion and more to do with certain personalities within the church that simply didn't want to be wrong. 

Here is a fun link to the exact dates and times of astronomical events around the world.  www.archaeoastronomy.com/2015.html 

[pointwithinacircle]

OK, so I'm having an astronomy day today. Here is another interesting way to look at the two "vertical lines" proposed as either the Saints John or the Equinoxes.

1. Go to earthsky.org/astronomy-essentials/everything-you-need-to-know-vernal-or-spring-equinox
2. Scroll down to the video of the earth and click play
3. Notice how the shadow on the earth is vertical at the Equinoxes - two vertical lines - I'm just saying :-)

[paul]

JSM Ward in Freemasonry and the Ancient Gods, page 12, writes that 2 vertical lines with a point in between represent Vishnu and 2 horizontal lines with a point in between represent Shiva.

He also notes the 2 vertical lines could be 2 pillars. There were 2 "pillars" in Egypt, one for the north and one for the south, but I do not know whether there was any technology involved or whether they were purely physical markers.



ssoc.selfip.com:81/texts/1921__ward___freemasonry_and_the_ancient_gods.pdf
The above link is the only I have ever found to this book.

[pointwithinacircle]

Very nice. I have a few J.S.M. Ward books that I found on Ebay a about ten years ago. I will have to check and see if I have that one.

As I recall they were mostly over my head at the time.

[paul]

Oddly enough the residue of Ward's spiritual community finished up about 15 minutes drive from where I currently live

jsmward.tripod.com/id3.html

[paul]

Dowsing the map with the mouse, Roanoke and Charlotte have noticeable energy

[elijah]

seems like theres a powerful leyline going straight threw Roanoke and Charlotte right into the ocean

you got the stories of Roanoke being haunted and people goin missing by the hundreds ... this image is also interesting the two points of the bermuda triangle sits right below those areas  in a almost perfect right angle

[elijah]

May 3, 2015 20:05:12 GMT 9.5 foxfires said:

Another bud of mine indicated that cambodia and korea had fellows who stood like 20 foot tall ... and were mighty men ... long adapted to the energy they wielded


So yeah vampire stories are true ... In this era we have emotional vampires ... and a priest is usually one who swallowed a demon or two and took his ass to crush depth and can fuzzy walk a miracle as he or she is will to die rather than hurt a lower life form of Gods or any undeserving creature without serious just cause /// much wincing and serious soul searching for what is the easiest softer way to stop a precised problem or is this really a problem and am i just mot seein the benefits of this deal here
Sorta like Everyone ought to examine ~~~
1 Corinthians 11:28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup... Holy Communion.

i was dissussing the topic of serpent people and larger humans with a friend few days specifically Korea and japan ....when i deconstructed the word naga-saki    you get serpent-spirit....as the only country in recent history to ever get radio actively destroyed....could the land of the rising sun had some humans who where quite special and needed a good radioactive kick in the pants so they dont wield that mighty men energy.....and could the few 20ft tall humans still reside in remote parts of north korea?we also discussed if those expierements in world war 2 had to do with radioactive atomic testing on humans so maybe certain dna strands didnt get set off in those cambodian korean japanese Nagasaki  mighty men....since the sun rises in the east they would certainly be first at hand to recieve that adam-omic lightcode...



those vampire stories with priest reminds me of the scenes from the exorcist specifically this one from exorcist 3 where the priest detective is in the cell with the demon 




1 Corinthians 11:28 That is why you should examine yourself before eating the bread and drinking the cup... Holy Communion.

some correlations to shamans in the south american jungles that have people purge and fast for a couple days in isolation before receiving heavy doses of ayauhasca to go on there spirit journeys..