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Post by LorrB on Nov 30, 2010 9:03:44 GMT 9.5
www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/The Book of Enoch, written during the second century B.C.E., is one of the most important non-canonical apocryphal works, and probably had a huge influence on early Christian, particularly Gnostic, beliefs. Filled with hallucinatory visions of heaven and hell, angels and devils, Enoch introduced concepts such as fallen angels, the appearance of a Messiah, Resurrection, a Final Judgement, and a Heavenly Kingdom on Earth. Interspersed with this material are quasi-scientific digressions on calendrical systems, geography, cosmology, astronomy, and meteorology.
This etext has been prepared specially for sacred-texts, and is a great improvement over other versions on the Internet, with the introduction, correct verse numbering, page numbers from the 1917 edition, and intact critical apparatus.
A little apres Christmas reading for you...
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Post by paul on Nov 30, 2010 10:19:56 GMT 9.5
>Filled with hallucinatory visions of heaven and hell, angels and devils, Or perhaps Enoch actually saw physical beings and places as indicated in Uriel's Machine en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uriel%27s_Machine |
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Post by LorrB on Nov 30, 2010 11:36:09 GMT 9.5
Enoch also figures in Masonic tradition in a very interesting way. The Indigo Jones Manuscript was written in 1607 and records, it is generally agreed, an older oral tradition. In 1610 a J. Whytstones wrote down a broadly similar version of the Enoch story in the 'Old Charges' and history of the Craft, which he says he has transcribed from an earlier document, now lost. I reproduce here a substantial section of the Indigo Jones manuscript. It does not at this point involve Enoch, but other Masonic Tradition I will mention in a moment, ties him in very definately. The Indigo Jones Manuscript says:
"You ask me how this Science was Invented My Answer is this: That before the General Deluge, which is commonly Called NOAH S Flood, there was a man called LAMECH, as you may read in the IV Chapter of Genesis; who had two wives, the one called ADA, the other ZILLA; BY ADA he begat two SONS, JABAL and JUBAL, by ZILLA he had One son called TUBALL and a Daughter called Naamah: These four Children found the beginning of all crafts in the World: JUBAL found out GEOMETRY ... HIS brother JUBAL found the ART of MUSIC ... TUBAL-CAIN was the Instructor of Every Artificer in Brass and Iron, And the Daughter found out the ART of Weaving.
THESE Children knew well that GOD would take vengence for SIN either by fire or water; Wherefore they Wrote their SCIENCES that they had found in Two Pillars, that they might be found after NOAH S Flood.
ONE of the Pillars was Marble, for that will not Burn with any Fire, And the other stone was Laternes for that will not drown with any Water .
OUR intent next is to Tell you Truly, how and in What manner these STONES were found whereon these SCIENCES were written.
THE Great HERMES (Surnamed TRISMAGISTUS, or three times Great) Being both King, Priest and Philosopher, (in EGYPT) and Lived in the Year of the World Two Thousand and Seventy Six, in the Reign of NINUS, and some think him to be the Grandson to CUSH, which was Grandson to NOAH, he was the the first that began to Learn of Astrology, To Admire the other Wonders of Nature; He proved, there was but one GOD, Creator of all things, He Divided the day into Twelve Hours, He is also thought to be the first who Divided the ZODIAC into twelve signs. He was scribe to OSYRIS King of EGYPT; And is said to have invented Ordinary Writing and Hierogiphics ... " (13)
The Bible does not connect Enoch with the flood, but Jewish historian Josephus does: he stated that Enoch recorded astronomical data on two pillars (so the information would survive the flood) and the Masonic version of the story is recorded in the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite. An older version of the 13th degree ritual - the 'Royal Arch of Enoch' relates that Enoch, forseeing that the world would be overwhelmed by some disaster of either flood or fire, engraved certain records on two pillars, one of brick and one of stone. It goes on to say that the Jews discovered fragments of the brick one in a vaulted arch during the building of King Soloman's Temple. This sounds like another version of the Zerubbable story of the Holy Royal Arch of Jerusalem, but it is broadly in keeping with both Josephus and the Indigo Jones manuscript.
www.mikecrowson.co.uk/SevenStars.html
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Post by paul on Nov 30, 2010 11:49:20 GMT 9.5
>ONE of the Pillars was Marble, for that will not Burn with any Fire
Limestone having gone through the fire of a volcano turns into marble, hence I sometimes wonder if the Great Pyramid (with a limestone casing) is one of the pillars.
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Post by Henka on Nov 30, 2010 16:09:39 GMT 9.5
>Filled with hallucinatory visions of heaven and hell, angels and devils, Or perhaps Enoch actually saw physical beings and places as indicated in Uriel's Machine en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uriel%27s_MachineThat's the most logical and well thought out take on it that I've come across. |
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Post by paul on Jan 23, 2011 14:31:52 GMT 9.5
A bit off topic but in The End of Days, Sitchin refers to the "divine black bird" that Ninurta keeps in an enclosure. He of course considers the gods to travel by various flying craft - as recorded in native traditions everywhere afaik. But the name "divine black bird" reminded me of the nordic tradition of the raven as messenger of the gods and of course the ravening or ravenous birds that appear in some rituals. Perhaps some of the gods were predatory and the sight of their divine black birds sent the cautious running for cover. Even today the sight of a Black Bird (SR71) would send the cautious running for cover. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_SR-71_BlackbirdThe other reference in Sitchin that I noticed is about the divine architect Thoth (Tehuti, the balancer) who is called upon to assist with building a new temple for Ninurta. Thoth "draws the cord" for orienting the new temple. And still today temple pavements are often decorated by a cord |
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Post by Henka on Jan 25, 2011 13:22:37 GMT 9.5
A bit off topic but in The End of Days, Sitchin refers to the "divine black bird" that Ninurta keeps in an enclosure. He of course considers the gods to travel by various flying craft - as recorded in native traditions everywhere afaik. But the name "divine black bird" reminded me of the nordic tradition of the raven as messenger of the gods and of course the ravening or ravenous birds that appear in some rituals. Perhaps some of the gods were predatory and the sight of their divine black birds sent the cautious running for cover. Sitchin said a lot of stuff he had wrong. The black birds you refer to are Huggin and Munnin, Thought and Memory, the two Ravens that Odin sends out daily to bring him knowledge of the nine worlds. The Morrigan, from Gaelic legend, is associated with ravens, battle and death. The SR-71 has been retired since Bush Sr. was President. Thoth and Ninurta are from two different pantheons, Khemitian and Sumerian, respectively. |
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Post by LorrB on Jan 25, 2011 14:06:28 GMT 9.5
I was reporting dream stuff on another thread and thinking about that when a dream I had years ago sprang to mind, to do with black birds. (Probably called from the subconscious by this thread)
I dreamt I walked from a tall city building into an adjoining aviary (?) when I bumped into my long deceased favourite aunt. We were so happy to see each other. As we walked out of the aviary a black bird (same size as a raven) came down and sat on my left shoulder. It whispered into my ear "Be still and listen".
Can still see the scene now even after all those years.
Dreams are fascinatingl aids.
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Post by paul on Jan 25, 2011 14:08:56 GMT 9.5
Thoth and Ninurta are from two different pantheons, Khemitian and Sumerian, respectively. As many have previously noted, the gods seem to be a rather small set. For example, both the Egyptians and the New Zealand Maori have a sun god called Ra. And the Sumerians had a god Ea (associated with a fall of water) while Abraham from Ur followed Ja. Sitchin had a go at matching cultural gods by title, temperament, actions, places and times. He concluded there is only one set of gods. That would be a simple explanation of the commonality of names and stories of the gods. |
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Post by Henka on Jan 25, 2011 15:05:11 GMT 9.5
Thoth and Ninurta are from two different pantheons, Khemitian and Sumerian, respectively. As many have previously noted, the gods seem to be a rather small set. For example, both the Egyptians and the New Zealand Maori have a sun god called Ra. And the Sumerians had a god Ea (associated with a fall of water) while Abraham from Ur followed Ja. Sitchin had a go at matching cultural gods by title, temperament, actions, places and times. He concluded there is only one set of gods. That would be a simple explanation of the commonality of names and stories of the gods. Sitchin simplified many things to fit his pre-conceived notions. He was not an expert in Sumerian, Akkadian and Babylonian. He was a Semitic scolar, and mistook similarities in words to mean that they were the same in meaning, just as did Lawrence Gardner. He misread things to fit his theories, which did not really fit. There is not, in my experience, one set of Gods. Odin is not Ra. Thoth is not Heimdall. White Buffalo Calf Woman is not Kwan Yin. The Gods and Goddesses of the differing pantheons are individual entities, with unique cultural attributes. |
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Post by paul on Jan 25, 2011 17:43:34 GMT 9.5
>Odin is not Ra.
Quite so. They have quite different characteristics. But I suspect that Ra (Egypt) is Ra (NZ) and Ea (Sumer) is Ja (Israel)
>Thoth is not Heimdall.
Probably not as Heimdall does not seem to have taken an interest in architecture. Interestingly Heimdall has 9 mothers and I find in the Hindu tradition a set of 9 goddesses. Perhaps there is a Hindu god that is Heimdall under another name
>White Buffalo Calf Woman is not Kwan Yin.
Again you seem to be correct.
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Post by cwhite on Sept 24, 2011 8:52:12 GMT 9.5
Enoch=En okh. En (Sumerian title equivalent to "lord"). Okh (Accadian for arrow). Sumerians never called the Anunnaki, “gods.” They were called din.gir, a two syllable word. Din meant “righteous, pure, bright;” gir was a term used to describe a sharp-edged object. As an epithet for the Anunnaki dingir meant “righteous ones of the bright pointed objects" or "lord of the shiny arrow". Could that possibly mean that the "Book of Enoch" is the book of the Anunnaki? Check out the pictograph the Sumerians used for dingir.  |
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Post by cwhite on Sept 24, 2011 13:02:47 GMT 9.5
En-ki, En-lil, En-och...
Seen similarities and did some digging.
Fulcanellis phonetics...
Thought the use of the name Enoch might denote some kind of ancient insider information.
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Post by LorrB on Sept 26, 2011 12:24:32 GMT 9.5
Enoch=En okh. En (Sumerian title equivalent to "lord"). Okh (Accadian for arrow). Sumerians never called the Anunnaki, “gods.” They were called din.gir, a two syllable word. Din meant “righteous, pure, bright;” gir was a term used to describe a sharp-edged object. As an epithet for the Anunnaki dingir meant “righteous ones of the bright pointed objects" or "lord of the shiny arrow". Could that possibly mean that the "Book of Enoch" is the book of the Anunnaki? Check out the pictograph the Sumerians used for dingir. Well goodness gracious me! Who would have thought ... Keep diggin' - I am interested. |
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