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Post by LorrB on Nov 24, 2010 8:29:37 GMT 9.5
I have to admit to pilfering this off the Lodgeroom UK forum - but it a good topic to explore. I give that forum permission to plunder our site as well  My lodge has five new EA's this year and I think they might find the subject enlightening. First post on the subject was: The Roots of Freemasonry - www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/jenkinsroots.html -
........ it can be very plausibly argued that a great deal of the symbolism which we find today is actually a comparatively modern feature, and that some, if not most, were not introduced until after the 18th century. .......
The Culdees were at York for several hundred years, certainly up to the year 1200, and it seems probable that from the close contact with the monks, the masons would have been taught to look upon their skills as a gift from God, and therefore their everyday tools and implements could be even have been considered as guides of faith. .... " |
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Post by LorrB on Nov 24, 2010 8:31:34 GMT 9.5
Second (thought provoking) post: Investigations in the origins of Masonry may consider:
- the body of Masonry (lodges, membership)
- the soul of Masonry (rituals, beliefs, practices)
- the spirit of Masonry (purpose for its institution).
Almost all investigations are of the body of Masonry. If however Masonry were only the current form (as alleged by Mackay), then we might need to trace rituals and beliefs to find earlier forms. For example, Moses is alleged to have conducted a lodge in the desert before the establishment of KST. What sort of ritual might the prince of Egypt have used?
But even ritual and beliefs may change with culture. How then would we identify that unchanging purpose behind Masonry that is ever clothed in the beliefs and forms of the day? |
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Post by paul on Nov 25, 2010 12:39:47 GMT 9.5
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Post by mgc on Jan 9, 2011 12:28:13 GMT 9.5
I reckon the spirit of masonry is oldest by far, but i wonder how old.. r we talking millennia or 100.000's of years..
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Post by paul on Jan 9, 2011 13:20:15 GMT 9.5
>r we talking millennia or 100.000's of years..
That rather depends upon whether the Temple in the Heavens is to be taken as more than flowery language. If there is indeed one or more heavenly temples, then perhaps those brethren have seen fit to instruct and encourage humanity in some emulation of the principles under which those temples work.
Such principles might give rise to the Masonic tradition of unchangeable landmarks.
If the temples in the heavens do exist then Masonry is extremely ancient. This is indicated in Royal Ark Mariners (RAM) where the ritual states that the lodge takes its rise from before the volume of the sacred lore/law. As all human traditions speak of teachers from on high, that claim by RAM is for a lineage that predates the human race
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Post by mgc on Jan 9, 2011 14:00:32 GMT 9.5
Do u think they mean literally from outher space? or would it be more like "from the gods", "proven" by xeptional skills that were more a part of everyday life before the malleus maleficarum?
What if the above mentioned skills gained in effectiveness according to the development (xperience) of the collective? It has been said that humans havnt become significantly smarter over the past few 100.000 years.. A person with access to the collective would therefor prolly be regarded as very (devinely) skillful / wise..
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Post by paul on Jan 9, 2011 14:41:01 GMT 9.5
>Do u think they mean literally from outher space? or would it be more like "from the gods", "proven" by xeptional skills that were more a part of everyday life before the malleus maleficarum? The native traditions are that almost all the gods are sky gods. Some gods are said to inhabit the underworld and the apsu (abyss) but even those are generally sky gods originally. Of course any entity that needs to transport a physical body through space is not particularly advanced. Often a better means of arrival is to incarnate into a suitable species at the chosen destination. See Shikasta www.dorislessing.org/shikasta.html>What if the above mentioned skills gained in effectiveness according to the development (xperience) of the collective? The human collective seems to be significantly fragmented - partly through interference. That fragmentation has encouraged a wide spread loss of perception and perspective - particularly in the West - with consequential loss of understandings that in former times allowed a more natural management of planetary life systems. |
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Post by mgc on Jan 9, 2011 15:34:21 GMT 9.5
This doesnt support the "from outher space" theory in which the teachers literally came from "up there", because the incarnated teachers would be born as human babies..
How?
and how would u define it? (so i know were talking about the same collective)
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Post by paul on Jan 9, 2011 19:22:38 GMT 9.5
>This doesnt support the "from outher space" theory in which the teachers literally came from "up there", The "teachers" that arrive in physical craft are easy to identify and there have been lots of them. >and how would u define it? I should think kama-manas is the basic material for the collective that exists close to the level of physical consciousness. dictionary.babylon.com/kama-manas/There may be localised collectives at more subtle levels. These can occur most easily in isolated spiritual communities. There may also be a trans-human collective at the upper mental level for the whole of the race. |
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Post by mgc on Jan 10, 2011 2:26:59 GMT 9.5
such as?
this site doesnt seem to want to load
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2011 5:28:12 GMT 9.5
>such as?
The widow Isis
>this site doesnt seem to want to load
Search for kama-manas
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Post by mgc on Jan 10, 2011 8:18:09 GMT 9.5
This is the 1 i mean..
the upper mental level is buddhi manas i suppose?
what craft did she come down in?
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2011 8:57:19 GMT 9.5
>the upper mental level is buddhi manas i suppose? While buddhi informs manas in initiates, I was just referring to the upper mental - subplanes 5.1, 5.2 and 5.3. A subset of this planetary substance circulates through those humans with suitable higher mental bodies, hence is the basis for a collective vehicle. >what craft did she come down in? Perhaps the boat of millions of years www.touregypt.net/godsofegypt/sunboat.htm |
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Post by mgc on Jan 10, 2011 11:50:24 GMT 9.5
To me that refers to the sun's mode of transportation (cant have your sun god just float in mid air, now can u), much like the chariot used in greek mythology.. The boat was prolly more apropriate for egyptians cause of the link between the river nile and the milkyway..
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Post by paul on Jan 10, 2011 12:23:18 GMT 9.5
To me that refers to the sun's mode of transportation A "sun god" or a "sun king" is not necessarily the same as the Sun. Mostly they are a lot smaller. There are of course many depictions of gods in flying machines and extensive maintenance instructions for such machines. ""the holy Indian Sages, the Ramayana for one, tell of "Two storied celestial chariots with many windows" "They roar like off into the sky until they appear like comets." The Mahabharata and various Sanskrit books describe at length these chariots, "powered by winged lighting...it was a ship that soared into the air, flying to both the solar and stellar regions."" Here is a model of a small vimana  And here you can see Ahura Mazda has landing pods on his flying machine  Modern Mazdas have wheels |
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Post by mgc on Jan 10, 2011 20:30:34 GMT 9.5
Thats very interesting.. However, does a flyingmachine based on antigrav. need wings and a rudder? (assuming thats what they r)..
Interesting is that the tail seems to be at 90 degree angle from whats common in nature unless the tail ends at the 2 tailplanes and the rudder is actually just a handle..
something else that struck me is how it resembles a funny looking (disney animation style) "thingamabob" with huge open mouth if u rotate it anti clockwise for about 135 degrees..
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Post by LorrB on Jan 11, 2011 8:26:14 GMT 9.5
On the Discovery Channel (or the History Channel can't remeber which) some engineer built a craft based on the vimana (pictured prev post) - and it flew. One might well be able to track down the info that enabled him to reproduce it. I think the series was called Ancient Secrets.
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Post by LorrB on Jan 11, 2011 8:39:20 GMT 9.5
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Post by paul on Jan 11, 2011 8:40:18 GMT 9.5
does a flyingmachine based on antigrav. need wings and a rudder? Perhaps a mothership would also have a number of short distance atmospheric craft |
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Post by LorrB on Jan 11, 2011 8:43:16 GMT 9.5
And talking about the roots of Freemasonry....  Surprise... Check our this altar to Hanuman. Pavement, pillars... Who is Hanuman? H(an)uman ?? I feel another wild goose chase coming on... |
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