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Post by paul on Sept 18, 2014 8:53:38 GMT 9.5
The quote is rather approximate in its descriptions - for example the mental body, if on good terms with you, will remind you to pick up the keys/list/water etc as you step out the door. And if not on good terms with you may struggle to do simple arithmetic such as count the change from the shop.
The question of free will is however a valid one.
Humans have multiple intelligences within their systems, ranging from atomic through cellular, organic, chakra and visiting intelligences of varying qualities and intents.
The challenge thereby is to bring the inherent intelligences to a degree of harmony and wholeness, discharging those that do not belong, and establishing a cohesive ecology through which the Spirit may express.
This is the work of many lifetimes with various stages. One of the later stages, quite commonly seen, is the drive for little-self actualisation.
The term Free when applied to Freemasons, is probably an historical borrowing from stone masons, who, in some circumstances had the freedom of some cities, not needing to pay the local taxes - or some similar exemption.
Masonry of course is much older than the very few stone mason guilds that could be found in England.
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Post by pointwithinacircle on Mar 29, 2015 1:57:24 GMT 9.5
Does man have freewill? It is a good question.
some years ago I began reading philosophy. Philosophy loves to ask questions like this one. Let me give you an example of another question that seems, at first, to ask an even more outrageous question, and then I will attempt to show why I believe that "asking the question" and "debating the answer" may be more important than "figuring it out".
The question that I wish to examine is "Is it possible know if anything exists?". On one side of this debate are those who argue that "It is not possible to know if anything exists" and on the other side are those who argue "Nothing exists unless it is known". What I learned from reading opinions on both sides is that the answers that one comes up with depend to mostly on how one defines "exist" and "know". Basically this argument is not about either "existence" or "knowledge", it is about perception. It is about what exists in the mind and what is known in the mind, perception. Studying the arguments used by both sides gave me new insights into what it means to "know and to "exist".
By now you are probably saying "OK, but how does any of that relate to the topic? The answer is that the same type of people also debate about Freewill, and they come up with the same type of answers. For me reading the debate and considering the viewpoints of the debaters is more important than thinking I have figured out the most correct answer. In fact, I am of the opinion that the debate eventually reaches a point where the only thing one can do is be silent.
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Post by paul on Mar 29, 2015 6:27:06 GMT 9.5
I recall many years ago I was in a class being instructed in the theory of meditation and the question was stated:
What does the person say when they have experienced pure consciousness?
And the answer is: "I am"
They say this because they have experienced their own existence outside of time, space and mind.
Once their own fundamental reality has been experienced they are capable of commencing useful philosophical processes.
Prior to that all philosophical process is based on assumption of existence.
Freewill however is not an absolute but limited. For example humans generally cannot exercise free will to overcome the influence of gravity.
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Post by fjrogers on Aug 24, 2015 15:26:33 GMT 9.5
> What does the person say when they have experienced pure consciousness?
> And the answer is: "I am"
I think this is like a state of Choiceless Awareness. That is complete freedom.
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Post by paul on Aug 24, 2015 17:31:24 GMT 9.5
How does that work with the relatively recent concept of humans being co-creators?
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Post by fjrogers on Aug 26, 2015 16:01:36 GMT 9.5
Yes, that is a good question. The powers of humanity are really limitless when you think carefully. Every state of mind has the potential for absolute freedom. As divine beings we can only be limitless at the centre.
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Post by paul on Aug 27, 2015 7:59:47 GMT 9.5
No doubt for some humans, grief is central to their experience, but I am not sure whether that is the majority.
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Post by fjrogers on Aug 27, 2015 15:04:25 GMT 9.5
> No doubt for some humans, grief is central to their experience, but I am not sure whether that is the majority.
Not the majority. I truly believe that freedom can be found in all circumstances, despite many appearances, if one looks through the veil of illusion. Justice moves through all our experiences and humanity must learn and grow from them.
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Post by fjrogers on Aug 28, 2015 15:16:37 GMT 9.5
Perhaps the Archangels will not rest until all humanity has evolved beyond the human state.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2015 18:37:18 GMT 9.5
Humans are composed of many aspects of self, some directly in opposition to each other, aspects may to a greater or lesser degree 'overlap' and 'agree' or otherwise, with each other. How can we have true free will as long as even aspects of self would disagree in what they will to do? The overused and underpractised aphorism of "know thyself", in my opinion is the sign above the door leading to a place where our collections of free wills unite into a single will.
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Post by elijah on Aug 28, 2015 19:38:11 GMT 9.5
Could it be that true free will is a specific perspective of observation ....balanced threw all levels of awareness...when a human is in disharmony with there thoughts actions environment possessions certain intelligences come online that tend to disconnect us from the divine link....this is why free will can be said a total illusion as it does have to pertain to certain natural laws like gravity as paul stated above...once a human can navigate all degrees of a situation be it internal or external..freewill can be used for a service to mankind as gods will... at the sametime loosening the bondage of the I-self so to speak...
Aphis bull...being such a symbolic creature since the dawn of history a beast that is of service to man more so then any other...could its fruit also be why is was cursed and allegedly held from reincarnation ...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 0:36:47 GMT 9.5
> As understanding the nature of dichotomy and living it gets real unnerving to observers
to self as well! lol
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Post by pointwithinacircle on Aug 29, 2015 6:03:53 GMT 9.5
How does that work with the relatively recent concept of humans being co-creators? The problem with discussing freewill is that nobody takes the time to define exactly what they are talking about. It is my observation the freewill and determinism are both true and correct concepts that are always active and in peaceful co-existence at all times. Some of my reality is determined by forces outside myself and some of my reality is determined by forces within myself. The percentage of control that internal VS external forces have over my life varies with my level of mastery. I am not sure how strong my mastery, and thus my freewill, can become. But if you hear that a supernova has created a new galaxy in some distant corner of the universe, and that I have been named it's supreme ruler, well then you can assume that I have it all figured out!
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Post by paul on Aug 29, 2015 7:54:32 GMT 9.5
One of the key aspects of free will is exposed in one of Baldwin's cases in www.amazon.com/Spirit-Releasement-Therapy-Technique-Manual/dp/092991516XHe had an adult client who was suffering possession and he was struggling to find the cause. Eventually he discovered that at the age of 12 she had been molested by her father and had tolerated the situation. That decision to tolerate wrong doing seems to have undermined her freedom ever since. As far as I recall she then rejected the situation and was able to be freed. I had a similar case with a housemate suffering from possession. I seemed unable to dislodge the entity despite intervening on atmic levels. I was told that immediately I dislodged the entity it would take up residence again because the housemate was being deliberately negative. His negativity was continuing to live where he knew he should not. So it may be that free will first operates at the level of intent of alignment or non-alignment to the Source of All and all manifestations of free will follow from that decision
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Post by fjrogers on Aug 29, 2015 14:36:50 GMT 9.5
> Stockholm Syndrome: Or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors.
I have heard of this condition. I wonder if it's fairly common.
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Post by paul on Aug 29, 2015 15:27:01 GMT 9.5
>I have heard of this condition. I wonder if it's fairly common.
I expect that about half of girls abused by their fathers are still greatly attached
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Post by pointwithinacircle on Aug 30, 2015 0:09:00 GMT 9.5
That decision to tolerate wrong doing seems to have undermined her freedom ever since. Aug 29, 2015 5:36:06 GMT -4 foxfires said: (Defying) a Hi power energy Operator OR upsetting em can be devastating Let me be honest. The beginning of my favorite quote is "Words are symbols which point toward concepts....." Quite often there are words and phrases used on this forum for which I have no accompanying concept. When I see phrases like "Dark Entities", atmic levels, or "light body" I pretty much have to search my memory for something that seems similar and and insert that instead: I guess at the concept intended. (Interestingly, when I read the phrase "Hi Power Energy Operator" I knew exactly who and what that was) Many years ago I looked at myself and said something roughly equivalent to "What the hell is wrong with me, I do want I don't want and I don't do what I do want" (that's a paraphrase of a quote ). Thus began my search for the truth about myself. The two quotes above fit nicely into that search and provide valuable perspective. First, that the more lasting damage was caused by my decision to tolerate "evil" and not by the "evil" itself. Second, that I was trapped between the twin devastations of tolerating or defying a Hi Power Energy Operator. So I had no good choice available. The simple choice to survive meant adopting dysfunctional behavior. Perhaps, at this point, forgiving myself for surviving is in order. Interesting.
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Post by paul on Aug 30, 2015 5:59:32 GMT 9.5
>Perhaps, at this point, forgiving myself for surviving is in order.
Being gracious to oneself is an important part of healing.
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Post by elijah on Aug 30, 2015 6:16:15 GMT 9.5
The simple choice to survive meant adopting dysfunctional behavior. Perhaps, at this point, forgiving myself for surviving is in order. Interesting. be aware of your dreams ...it's hard not to get caught up in the experience and write it off as weird or strange....on the path to betterment you'll will be taught lessons specifically in the dream state... how to overcome certain situation regarding the advancement of the soul imo...when i first started reading this forum i couldn't get a firm grasp of the concept of dark entity's and levels of light body ...but in due time the information was almost givin to me by sheer coincidence....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 6:42:19 GMT 9.5
> Could it be that true free will is a specific perspective of observation .... Maybe it's from the perspective of the self at the centre, and to be true it must be without contradiction from conflicting aspects of self. I think I mean that the centre is unmoving, and conflict creates motion about the centre, so when we are in conflict we are moving about the centre.
> balanced threw all levels of awareness... Through all currently accessible levels of awareness, or all potential levels of awareness?
> this is why free will can be said a total illusion as it does have to pertain to certain natural laws like gravity as paul stated above... Perhaps viewed from the place where true free will is accessible, gravity does not have to be obeyed.
> once a human can navigate all degrees of a situation be it internal or external..freewill can be used for a service to mankind as gods will... As an aside, personally I don't like the word service, I keep trying to articulate it, but am never satisfied with the result. I'll try though. Doing an act out of the concept of being of service, is to make service the act, which renders us bound to the concepts which we define service by. Krishnamurti said "The seeing is the doing", he said this many times, here it is in one such instance.
Jiddu Krishnamurti "Freedom is not the act of decision but the act of perception. The seeing is the doing. It is not a determination to see and then to act. After all, will is desire with all it's contradictions."
My understanding of Krishnamurti in this matter is that when we see a situation without prejudice we act without having to compare possible actions, the action is a sort of knowing what to do.
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