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Post by paul on Nov 14, 2015 8:59:38 GMT 9.5
... Now I'm under the impression that many in the fraternity THINK they have hidden knowledge of some sort. I don't find the notion convincing however because I've met Masons who were not what I would call happy or 'bettered' men.... Four lodges in London in 1717 broke away and declared themselves to be the Grand Lodge of London and Westminster. In 1727 that Grand Lodge declared in its newly discovered 3rd degree ritual that the genuine secrets were lost. And since then apparently, no mainstream Grand Lodge has tried to discover them. Prior to that, from what I have read, there was no reference to lost secrets. The genuine secrets are based upon what Masonry calls "the hidden mysteries of nature and science" and as you might expect, any person may pursue these. Obvious successes have occurred including Tesla, Schauberger and Leedskalnin Most Freemasons seem perfectly content with the reported loss of the genuine secrets. There are however traces that remain in the ritual and occasionally when the ritual is performed reasonably well and the stars align, glimpses can be seen.
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Post by Barclay on Nov 14, 2015 10:17:52 GMT 9.5
I suppose I meant I see no reason to think there is a mass conspiracy to keep knowledge hidden from the masses.
As for your deism comment, paul - What do you mean by 'intelligence?'
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Post by paul on Nov 14, 2015 10:24:41 GMT 9.5
>I see no reason to think there is a mass conspiracy to keep knowledge hidden from the masses. If you have read Carlos Castaneda then you may recall the idea that the human mind is "a foreign installation" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda>What do you mean by 'intelligence?' I was using the term Intelligence to refer to the intelligence that exists throughout the galaxy and beyond. Recall that Tesla regarded stones as intelligent. In my experience the "nervous system" of quartz extends through the galaxy and thus provides an instant communication system. Treat stones nicely! I also perceive greater intelligences.
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Post by Barclay on Nov 14, 2015 10:52:05 GMT 9.5
> If you have read Carlos Castaneda then you may recall the idea that the human mind is "a foreign installation" I have not. It's my belief that our minds are a result of the the brain & evolution. If anything has 'installed' it I think it would be nature. > I was using the term Intelligence to refer to the intelligence that exists throughout the galaxy and beyond. > Recall that Tesla regarded stones as intelligent. In my experience the "nervous system" of quartz extends through the galaxy and thus provides an instant communication system. Treat stones nicely! > I also perceive greater intelligences. I don't see evidence for a cosmic consciousness. I am an evidentialist. Funny thing is, to convince me otherwise would still take evidence.
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Post by paul on Nov 14, 2015 11:04:40 GMT 9.5
> to convince me
I am not interested in conviction. I think it is impolite to convince someone.
From the Latin: convincō (present infinitive convincere, perfect active convīcī, supine convictum); third conjugation
- convince. - conquer, establish. - convict, find guilty.
>would still take evidence.
I find experience more valuable than logic.
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Post by paul on Nov 14, 2015 11:09:18 GMT 9.5
>It's my belief that our minds are a result of the the brain & evolution.
That is certainly the commonly taught belief.
>I am an evidentialist.
There are plenty of cases of people, clinically dead for a while, with zero brain activity, that reported events out of line of sight of their bodies.
Is the mind able to operate separately from the brain? Apparently it does.
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Post by paul on Nov 14, 2015 11:32:25 GMT 9.5
> If anything has 'installed' it I think it would be nature.
So is your logic:
- If my mind were a foreign installation it would tell me. Since it has not told me then it must be natural.
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Post by Barclay on Nov 14, 2015 11:46:41 GMT 9.5
> to convince me I am not interested in conviction. I think it is impolite to convince someone. From the Latin: convincō (present infinitive convincere, perfect active convīcī, supine convictum); third conjugation - convince. - conquer, establish. - convict, find guilty. >would still take evidence. I find experience more valuable than logic. I can respect that. I didn't realize that was the root meaning of the word. I suppose 'pursuade' is a better choice. I'm not sure which is more valuable. Maybe they're equal. It seems that much of what our brain does is misinterpret. So much of our experience is illusion. That being said, I'm not sure logic can break that spell.
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Post by Barclay on Nov 14, 2015 11:59:28 GMT 9.5
> That is certainly the commonly taught belief.
I don't necessarily see that to be the case. Most people are religious and believe that they are souls which 'have' bodies rather than 'being' their bodies.
> There are plenty of cases of people, clinically dead for a while, with zero brain activity, that reported events out of line of sight of their bodies.
The few cases I've heard about didn't hold water. They seemed to be folks who still had some brain activity and things they reported upon regaining consciousness were of little significance. Like the 'Heaven is Real' kid. His view of heaven was very generic. It was exactly what I would expect a person raised with the Christian faith to describe heaven as.
> If my mind were a foreign installation it would tell me. Since it has not told me then it must be natural.
I don't really know. Our minds appear to be a result of brain function. I should probably note though that I think everything is natural. Even something made in a lab, like a clone, I would consider natural because humans are natural.
I certainly hope you do not take offense to us discussing these things. Sometimes I get pushback from people when one actively tries to engage these topics. To this point, I haven't felt us to be arguing but if it becomes that I will have no part in it.
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Post by paul on Nov 14, 2015 12:17:45 GMT 9.5
>I certainly hope you do not take offense to us discussing these thing
I have taken no offense.
Arguably one of the most difficult tasks that faces the human is learning to control its thoughts.
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Post by Barclay on Nov 14, 2015 12:29:14 GMT 9.5
> I have taken no offense.
Cool
> Arguably one of the most difficult tasks that faces the human is learning to control its thoughts.
I wholly agree.
I've known of the benefits that meditation can provide for several years now, yet I still have only been able to commit to the practice on a couple of occasions. But I hope to commit more to the practice because it can do alot to quiet the mind and show you just how lost we are in thought, almost every moment of every day.
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Post by paul on Nov 14, 2015 12:29:39 GMT 9.5
>His view of heaven was very generic.
This can arise from 3 obvious mechanisms:
- the mind is faking the spiritual experience to ensure the human does not reach past the mind (very common) - the experience is perceived through the filter of known imagery (e.g. difficulty of tribal peoples recognizing previously unknown objects) - memory is later edited to conform to acceptable beliefs
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Post by paul on Dec 10, 2015 4:56:07 GMT 9.5
> But seems the 4th dimension entities collect the requests And the higher energies work out what is best for all humanity
I suspect that it is much more complicated than that.
For example, if a request is against the principles of natural justice, does that open the requester to dark influences?
And are the higher energies actually united?
And, the Earth, containing this particular human experiment, is subject to rules that leave the experiment operating - hence calling to your god is generally not sufficient to bring you out of your troubles
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Post by paul on Dec 31, 2015 17:26:52 GMT 9.5
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Post by fjrogers on Jan 1, 2016 9:46:00 GMT 9.5
Notice that the less developed countries tend to place more emphasis on religion in peoples' daily lives.
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Post by paul on Jan 1, 2016 12:41:50 GMT 9.5
I notice that South Korea, Japan and China are 3 of the 4 largest trade partners with Australia. Is lack of religion an important part of trade relationships?
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Post by fjrogers on Jan 1, 2016 16:03:37 GMT 9.5
> Is lack of religion an important part of trade relationships?
I think it is in a way, perhaps more unconsciously than anything else. Popular religion tends to generate dogma in the mass mindset which reduces people's freedom to think and step outside the square in the world of business and commerce. This would impact on trade relationships between the developed, semi-developed and non-developed worlds.
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