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Post by paul on Sept 20, 2011 8:02:47 GMT 9.5
... Question: What were the secrets and mysteries of the early, apostolic Church and what became of them? They were certainly not passed on to the Church 1Cr 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able [to bear it], neither yet now are ye able. Did the same happen to Masonry?
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Post by LorrB on Sept 20, 2011 9:19:39 GMT 9.5
LorrB lets slip that she is having "fun" I'm just a fun loving gal, Tamrin. Like the superfine bubbles of a bottle of fine Champagne, high spirits lift me up and I find it hard to stay mad at anyone for long. On a more serious note, I have never shared anything here that I have not given some thought to. Subjects are raised here so that we can collect members thoughts and ideas on a subject. You may duly take note that I am JOYOUS in being able to contribute just a teeny bit to my beloved Freemasonry. I don't sell books, go on promotional tours, speak at seminars - in other words don't peddle - my ideas or discoveries - I offer them freely to whomever is interested in them. For those that aren't that is fine too. HOPE and GRATITUDE are my gifts to my fellow beings - this keeps me light hearted, and I am often rewarded with JOY.
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Post by tamrin on Sept 20, 2011 11:50:30 GMT 9.5
... Question: What were the secrets and mysteries of the early, apostolic Church and what became of them? They were certainly not passed on to the Church Further hint: The figure of Jesus was depicted as a Jewish teacher, instructing his apostles in privileged knowledge, mouth to ear. Next: Some "heretical" groups, which survived to and merged with the Reformation, rightly or wrongly believed they had split from Rome at the first Council of Nicaea and that they preserved the apostolic mysteries. The Rosicrucian mysteries appear to be one expression of these "mysteries". Another appears among the mostly Protestant, Sons of Solomon division of the French Compagnonnage (the other divisions were exclusively Catholic). Finally, Huguenots (French Protestants), including Desaguliers, and Scottish Calvinists were disproportionately represented in the premier grand lodge. It was they who appear to have introduced the great changes in the 1720s in what seems like a joint French and Scottish project ( à la their Auld Alliance) on English soil. Am I joining dots which properly bear no relation to each other? Who can say?
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Post by paul on Sept 20, 2011 11:59:59 GMT 9.5
So what does this tell us of tolerance in Masonry?
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Post by tamrin on Sept 20, 2011 12:14:15 GMT 9.5
So what does this tell us of tolerance in Masonry? I thought we had already established that it is NOT the first tenet of the Craft as per the assertion which began the topic.
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Post by paul on Sept 20, 2011 13:01:21 GMT 9.5
Tolerance might not be the first tenant or even the first tenet of Masonry but I rather think that brotherly love is impossible without tolerance.
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Post by tamrin on Sept 20, 2011 13:17:55 GMT 9.5
Here we go again! Tolerance of the intolerable is a vice not a virtue.
Linking the Craft to **** is intolerable.
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Post by tamrin on Sept 20, 2011 13:27:05 GMT 9.5
HOPE and GRATITUDE are my gifts to my fellow beings - this keeps me light hearted, and I am often rewarded with JOY. You forget, I have corresponded for years with you and "Paul" and I have increasing regretted your habit of befouling the sacred. I am still horrified when I recall your trivializations when I tried to discuss solemn aboriginal traditions. You give me cause for neither hope nor gratitude.
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Post by stewartedwards on Sept 20, 2011 15:03:51 GMT 9.5
I am just wondering is anyone here is going to write to the UGLE Grand Secretary and ask him why their website and their marketing booklets appear to mislead the public so much? I won't do it as my days of actively supporting ugle and amity have been worn out of me due to the behaviour of alleged members over the years, but unlike me, there must be some here who still have faith in ugle and who are willing to point out the seeming error of its ways to it? You see that primary tenet has inspired me for many years, and more than one internet mason has been asked by me over the years why their behaviour does not accord with it. So if ugle has this so wrong, then they have mislead me, for the words of its tenets are very clear and unambigious. I wonder then how many others have also been mislead. It may as Tamrin has said by only one persons opinion, and may not de so defined anywhere else in freemasonry but when UGLE publicly writes I dont think that it is unreasonable for aspiring candidates to believe that this is correct, and not just represent one mans opinion. Knowing that within the great halls of Great Queen Street at least some masonic forums have members, I can only wonder what UGLE itself makes of this thread. I can just imagine them sayings "well that is only Tamrins opinion", or would they say "Oh eck we had better change our primary tenet so that it no longer misleads people like Stewart". Was I wrong to take UGLEs words at face value? Can the public trust ugle not to mislead potential candidates? ;D
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Post by tamrin on Sept 20, 2011 15:21:10 GMT 9.5
Stewart, Please consider how it was accurate for UGLE to state that "Brotherly Love" (not "tolerance" per se) was the Craft's first tenet, the rest (including the mention of "tolerance") was commentary.
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Post by LorrB on Sept 20, 2011 16:59:30 GMT 9.5
HOPE and GRATITUDE are my gifts to my fellow beings - this keeps me light hearted, and I am often rewarded with JOY. You forget, I have corresponded for years with you and "Paul" and I have increasing regretted your habit of befouling the sacred. I am still horrified when I recall your trivializations when I tried to discuss solemn aboriginal traditions. You give me cause for neither hope nor gratitude. Tamrin... it seems EVERYTHING any of us say here horrifies you. I have no idea what you are talking about re the above. However I feel sure that you have it duly noted down somewhere and will reproduce it verbatum. Please do so on another thread. I am quite interested in Aboriginal Traditions. Ainslie Roberts, Dreamtime Artist, was a friend and near neighbour of ours. He used to share his wonderful stories and adventures with us every now and then. His paintings are amazing.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2011 17:49:17 GMT 9.5
Tamrin... it seems EVERYTHING any of us say here horrifies you. There is a reason for that
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Post by tamrin on Sept 20, 2011 19:16:04 GMT 9.5
You forget, I have corresponded for years with you and "Paul" and I have increasing regretted your habit of befouling the sacred. I am still horrified when I recall your trivializations when I tried to discuss solemn aboriginal traditions. You give me cause for neither hope nor gratitude. Tamrin... it seems EVERYTHING any of us say here horrifies you.
I have no idea what you are talking about re the above. However I feel sure that you have it duly noted down somewhere and will reproduce it verbatum. Please do so on another thread.Naaah! I'll link to it here: Australian Aboriginal Traditions
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Post by LorrB on Sept 21, 2011 8:30:45 GMT 9.5
Thanks for posting that Tamrin, I quite enjoyed reading it again. Though, you having deleted your original post makes it a bit difficult to see where we were all coming from.
Page two was interesting also. How is your forum going?
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Post by LorrB on Sept 21, 2011 8:49:03 GMT 9.5
Tamrin... it seems EVERYTHING any of us say here horrifies you. There is a reason for that You know my dad was a true gentleman. Quiet, generous, loving, patient and kind. Small children and animals used to follow him when he went for walks. When he passed away my mum had strangers knocking on the door asking if something had happened to the nice gentleman as they hadn't seen him for a while. One of these strangers was a young lad, about 18 complete with nose stud and ear-ring. Just by being there my dad's presence evoked something in others. There was something truly special about him. I used to harbour the notion that Masons were a bit like my dad.
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Post by paul on Sept 21, 2011 13:08:38 GMT 9.5
That is a bit like the traditional rainmaker - who does nothing - but by being so attuned to Nature, Nature comes into right alignment and the rain comes at its right time.
A more modern example is Furtwangler who conducted the BPO for many years.
On one occasion the orchestra was tuning up waiting for Furtwangler and being discordant as usual and when suddenly all the instruments were producing harmony. One of the players looked up to see what had happened and there at the far end of the auditorium, Furtwangler had stepped through the doors.
His mere presence, even unknown, was sufficient to bring order from chaos.
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Post by tamrin on Sept 21, 2011 21:18:13 GMT 9.5
Thanks for posting that Tamrin, I quite enjoyed reading it again. Though, you having deleted your original post makes it a bit difficult to see where we were all coming from. I thought what was left made it perfectly clear that what I deleted was because of "Paul" and yourself defiling the topic with your infantile and offensive nonsense. Those interested can link to a tyled version of the topic on the last page of the thread.
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Post by paul on Sept 22, 2011 11:35:13 GMT 9.5
It seems that we have pretty much exhausted this topic.
Tamrin's view on tolerance has been amply stated as have the views of others.
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Post by tamrin on Sept 22, 2011 15:57:26 GMT 9.5
It seems that we have pretty much exhausted this topic.
Tamrin's view on tolerance has been amply stated as have the views of others. Not so much my view per se, but rather an observation that it does not explicitly feature in our rituals.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2011 18:06:06 GMT 9.5
Yeah, but he has got to blame someone.
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