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Post by paul on Jul 10, 2011 16:43:57 GMT 9.5
I was contemplating the proposition that Masons (should) use the working tools in a moral sense.
And it occurred to me that the key words are "use" and "tools" and that there are four possibilities:
1. neither "use" nor "tools" is symbolic 2. "use" is literal while "tools" is symbolic 3. "use" is symbolic while "tools" is literal 4. both "use" and "tools" are symbolic.
1 implies that the physical working tools when used have a moral sense - e.g. using a common gavel to make rhythmical knocks for degree work 2 implies that there are some objects veiled by the word "tools". These may or may not be physical but are capable of being directly used to produce non-physical "moral" results. (Is the word "moral" a veil?)
3 implies that there is no direct cause-effect as commonly seen with the use of physical tools e.g. the tools can be moralised upon - as occurs in most lodges
4 appears indeterminate in that no actual cause-effect relationship is required and that makes it hard to identify what the word "tools" might refer to.
I find cases 1 & 2 much more interesting than case 3.
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Post by LorrB on Jul 11, 2011 9:13:31 GMT 9.5
Well that post should keep us going for a while, a whole lot to think about there. And without any thinking whatsoever on my part, I was immediately drawn to No 2 - the tools are symbolic (signs) that we must use. Craftsmen work... so we must work at something. We just can't think about it.
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Post by paul on Aug 4, 2011 10:38:13 GMT 9.5
Any progress?
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Post by LorrB on Aug 5, 2011 9:09:21 GMT 9.5
"a system of morality veiled in allegory and illustrated by symbols." IAO is one of the names of God... and is the origin of Jah, Ja, Jahweh, etc. I = Spirit descending A = Splitting into two parts. Duality (but joined) O = All one nonetheless. No beginning, no ending, eternal. The lodge tools, the plumbline, the square and the compasses can be used to illustrate this 'word' and what it implies. Morality means good and virtuous conduct (the four tassels). Freemasonry is a system or process (I prefer this word). Guess that leaves me solidly with case 2. I thing we masons can use our bodies to replicate the tools so that they produce positive results, however. Standing squarely can energise the 33 So the word 'use' is literal here. Just my thoughts on this subject.
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Post by LorrB on Aug 5, 2011 9:14:16 GMT 9.5
Square and Compasses = As Above, so below ?
A Square can become Compasses when we knock of the knobs and excrescences (hard corners) and become dynamic in thought and action (swivel on a point)
Funny what springs to mind when one is pushed ;D
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Post by paul on Aug 5, 2011 9:26:05 GMT 9.5
>A Square can become Compasses
More specifically that which is veiled by the Compasses is the substance to that which is veiled by the Square. And eventually that which is veiled by the Square returns via the Compasses
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Post by LorrB on Aug 5, 2011 9:30:22 GMT 9.5
Gotcha.
Is this related to the squaring the circle?
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Post by LorrB on Aug 5, 2011 9:32:58 GMT 9.5
Why we are touching on as above, so below.. As above, so below sprang to mind this morning when I was listening to the news. Some scientists have made a medical breakthrough re cracking the code for restricting the transmission method of some dastardly diseases. By way of explanation so the listener could understand what had happened, it was explained how cells need to allow positive influences in whilst keeping the negative influences out. Apparently the cell has what amounts to be a knocking system for allowing entry. Give the right knocks or handshake and you are in, but up to now the negatives have become pretty good at mimicking the positives. Seems the great new discovery is a way of enhancing, what we masons would call the Inner Guard
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Post by paul on Aug 5, 2011 10:00:45 GMT 9.5
>Is this related to the squaring the circle?
It is indeed a valid interpretation. Well done!
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Post by paul on Aug 5, 2011 10:14:07 GMT 9.5
>Apparently the cell has what amounts to be a knocking system for allowing entry.
As you would expect its effectiveness is greatly influenced by the psychology of the human.
Hence, with rested intent the human may train the cellular systems to reject improper influences. This is particularly valuable when immersed in the EM smog of cities.
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Post by paul on Apr 27, 2012 17:34:28 GMT 9.5
An old thread and difficult too. Still it serves as a home for this:
"In old English folklore, "knocking on wood" also referred to when people spoke of secrets - they went into the isolated woods to talk privately and "knocked" on the trees when they were talking to hide their communication from evil spirits who would be unable to hear when they knocked."
Do the brethren knock with and on wood to keep their secrets?
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Post by jackjack on May 25, 2012 4:20:08 GMT 9.5
What if it's both literal and symbolic?
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Post by paul on May 25, 2012 8:44:56 GMT 9.5
So what practical applications might there be?
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Post by jackjack on Jul 23, 2012 6:02:23 GMT 9.5
I don't know; I'm not a mason.
However, if I were to guess, it would possibly be related to the degree the candidate was entering or leaving.
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Post by paul on Jul 23, 2012 8:44:26 GMT 9.5
The use of the "tools" in a moral sense dates back at least to the Old Testament:
Amos 7:8 New Living Translation (©2007) And the LORD said to me, "Amos, what do you see?" I answered, "A plumb line." And the Lord replied, "I will test my people with this plumb line. I will no longer ignore all their sins.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 23, 2012 13:59:05 GMT 9.5
Well, it depends; the definition of certain tools usually changes depending on the degree status of the person being communicated to.
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Post by paul on Jul 23, 2012 14:29:30 GMT 9.5
In that case all God's people were expected to use the "plumb line" in moral sense - whether initiates or not.
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Post by jackjack on Jul 23, 2012 14:45:49 GMT 9.5
Next question is what is the plumbline...
: )
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Post by paul on Jul 23, 2012 15:15:22 GMT 9.5
Next question is what is the plumbline... : ) I see you are of the view that the plumb line is symbolic in Amos. I expect that is so, and yet Amos saw something and did not have to ask what he saw. So what was it?
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Post by jackjack on Jul 23, 2012 15:38:30 GMT 9.5
Well, going with the idea of a standard used for measuring something, we can read in the Psalms that it is the law of God that we are to measure and square our lives by; it says "Trust in the Lord with your whole heart and don't lean on your own understanding" and in another place "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light for my path." So God's laws are supposed to lead and guide our lives.
If we truly follow the laws of God, we become blameless/righteous people. However, it is possible for us to be blameless people but not have a relationship with God. Living a good life is only half of the picture; the other half is having your relationship with God restored and being filled with the power of the Holy Spirit.
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