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Post by paul on Oct 22, 2013 10:08:29 GMT 9.5
It seems however that blood line descent is much less important than it was, as human becomes mentally and morally better developed.
As for "properly prepared", the true initiate is ever self-made. The inner discipline and the requisite purification (moral development) need to be self-imposed. Thus the candidate for Freemasonry is said to be first prepared in the heart.
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Post by stepnwolf on Oct 22, 2013 11:56:04 GMT 9.5
Masonry is supposed to preserve residuals of the ancient mysteries. If so there should be aspects of ritual that parallel what is known of ancient rituals. I have already suggested that having the candidate strike the wardens may be one such. Do any other ritual aspects come to mind? Admission -- we just don't turn up in L. but have to request admission at the door Tyler -- our labors are guarded against cowans & eavesdroppers Journeys -- as part of the admission process the candidate takes journeys of some kind Modes of recognition and other secrets
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Post by paul on Oct 24, 2013 8:04:17 GMT 9.5
>have to request admission
That is certainly a characteristic of the ancient mysteries - being barred to casual visitors
> our labors are guarded against cowans & eavesdroppers
That too is common in the ancient mysteries, with death penalties applying
>as part of the admission process the candidate takes journeys of some kind
There are certainly accounts of such journeys in the ancient mysteries.
>Modes of recognition and other secrets
Quite so.
Now can we identify origins more precisely?
For example Cautes and Cautopates, the supporters of Mithras, can be seen each with a torch, one up and one down, just like the columns of the Wardens, where the new initiate is taught to be caut-ious
Another is the stepping off with the left foot, which may be in imitation of the Egyptians trampling the king of terrors in the form of a wax image with the left foot. This is still depicted in various religions as a serpent under the left foot of the woman or Vishnu.
Any other propositions?
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Post by LorrB on Oct 24, 2013 8:19:57 GMT 9.5
For example Cautes and Cautopates, the supporters of Mithras, can be seen each with a torch, one up and one down, just like the columns of the Wardens, where the new initiate is taught to be caut-ious omgoodness ... hidden in plain sight. oh no - I feel another Google search coming on.
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Post by LorrB on Oct 24, 2013 8:55:05 GMT 9.5
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Post by LorrB on Oct 24, 2013 9:11:49 GMT 9.5
The Eagle and the Scorpion are interchangeable
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Post by LorrB on Oct 24, 2013 9:12:42 GMT 9.5
Twelve Tribes (below) Twelve Signs (above)
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Post by LorrB on Oct 24, 2013 9:13:25 GMT 9.5
We just go round in circles (or a spiral?)
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Post by paul on Oct 24, 2013 10:06:50 GMT 9.5
Twelve Tribes (below) Twelve Signs (above) Thus the circle of the zodiac is depicted in straight lines. Does this tell us about any event in history of the ancient mysteries?
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Post by stepnwolf on Oct 26, 2013 21:51:21 GMT 9.5
........ After examining the statue of Cautopates, which often bears an inverted torch, I am reminded of the Tarot key 14 (Temperance) and key 15 (Devil) with the same figure of an inverted torch. Can we guess that the significance of Cautopates can be deduced from these two tarot keys?
According to a recent authority “No satisfactory etymology of the names Cautes and Cautopates has yet been offered.” Without any such etymology, we really can't associate the names with the English word caution (lat. >Cavere = to be on ones guard). To do so would be to set up a needless blind for the unwary.
What then is the significance of an inverted torch being born by Cautopates in the cult of Mithras? One meaning of Key 14, Temperance, can be derived from the name itself in English: tempered = made strong, or resilient or to modify. By extension: one aspect of Mithras is the power to change or modify the candidate. For the music lover the expression “well tempered” has special meaning and suggests adjustments in musical tones to fit into an octave. By extension: this power of Mithras is to change according to a predetermined set of rules. With Mithras' popularity among the military (rough ashlars), might we assume that part of Mithras' function is to make the ashlars smooth(er)?
One of the main ideas in Key 15 (the Devil) is illusion. The inverted torch here suggests revolution or violent change brought about by misunderstanding the evidence of reality. With the raised open hand the main figure says, “this is all. There is no more to see.” With the lowered hand the message is, “all is in flux, forever changing.”
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Post by paul on Oct 27, 2013 5:23:24 GMT 9.5
>Without any such etymology, we really can't associate the names with the English word caution "In latin, 'cautes' bears the sense of a jagged rock. Negotiating a sharp mass of stone such as a cliff or a reef demands caution - we must be on our guard. And the one who takes such precautions is known as the 'cautor'. The 'cautor' is also the suretor of a deal and stands bond, bailing one out of captivity." groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mithras/conversations/topics/5356Thus at the stations of what might well be Cautes and Cautopates, the candidate is required to say: I was taught to be cautious. "The two torch-bearers are often interpreted as symbols of light, one for the rising, the other for the setting sun" www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/display.php?page=cautes_and_cautopatesIn Masonry the Wardens are associated with the midday and the setting sun .
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Post by adrian on Nov 7, 2013 18:25:00 GMT 9.5
Surely the Kundalini rising must lead towards ever greater knowledge, meaning gnosis of course. I agree with Henka that one can either experience God, or know about Him, but not both. Experiencing God would then be gnosis, and knowing about Him would be theology I assume. Presumably it is the 'gnosis' aspect of Kundalini that is the most important thing; and where would it fit on the Tree of Life, Daath or Kether?
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Post by paul on Nov 7, 2013 18:41:03 GMT 9.5
>Surely the Kundalini rising must lead towards ever greater knowledge
Unless stimulated out of season in which case it may damage the chakras across several incarnations
>one can either experience God, or know about Him, but not both
This is not so clear to me. For example the fabled Masonic science may enable both a controlled experience of Deity as well as an analytic perspective
>knowing about Him would be theology I assume
I rather like the decomposition of theological into theo-logical - making it clear that it is human logic applied to the Divine and rather subject to error.
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Post by paul on Nov 26, 2013 12:25:41 GMT 9.5
As recounted elsewhere, the Rose of Sharon appears for the first time in the King James version of the Bible, within a year or so of the Rosicrucians announcing their existence. Thus a first hypothesis might be that the Rose of Sharon was invented to give Christian legitimacy to the Rosicrucians. The Rose Croix ritual has several forms, some of which have direct reference to the Rosicrucian tradition. The Rose Croix rituals are also an easy match to the Sumerian tradition of the warring gods Ea and Baal, where their heavenly sovereign, their father An, would descend to Earth to sort out his two eldest sons (princes) and then ascend once more. Ea was the oldest but by a concubine. Baal was son of An's wife and hence had precedence in inheriting. Thus they battled for the Earth - for the time of exploitation of the minerals - while there was a better and longer lasting inheritance in the heavens. The gods were struggling with loss of immortality on Earth and required the Water of Life and the Bread of Life to maintain their life span. Being of alchemical nature, these are represented by 3 elements - salt, bread (sulphur) and wine (mercury). Now the 18th degree dates from early in the 18th century www.cornerstonepublishers.com/rosecroix.pdf , but the first translations of Sumerian literature do not appear until the mid 19th century. So when does the Sumerian material enter Masonic rituals - particularly Holy Royal Arch and Rose Croix? If they are inserted prior to the deciphering of cuneiform then there was probably a secret tradition. If the material was inserted later, who would know to do that, and on what authority? Shades of Chevalier Ramsay!
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Post by paul on Feb 5, 2014 7:32:46 GMT 9.5
The usual account of the 4 lodges (of the many in London) that formed their own Grand Lodge from 1717, is that they were concerned with the poor state of Masonry in London. This explanation I always took with a grain of salt but there may be some truth in it. Was there a political struggle going on? "With the accession of the Elector of Hanover as King George I of England in 1714, Masonic supporters of the Stuarts mounted a decades long, clandestine campaign to regain the British throne. In 1717 a rival Hanoverian system of Masonry was established, which aimed to suppress and defeat that campaign. When the Hanoverian victors in England-and their descendants among Whig historians wrote the histories of this great cultural and political rivalry, they created their own myth of Protestant progress and toleration, which almost obliterated the Celtic-Catholic-Jewish elements in the opposition's struggle and which ignored the survival of those elements in an international Jacobite culture. " www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/apendent_bodies/scottiest/the_true_history_scottish_esoteric_masonry.htm
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Post by sammy on Feb 28, 2014 23:51:24 GMT 9.5
Stewart Early in my studies I was taught that messing with Kundalini is dangerous. I didn't listen. Ah, you see that is where my experience differs stepnwolf, for I never studied anything esoteric (shotokan karate aside). I just bumbled and stumbled upon it. I then found my way to esoteric texts and the masonic world which gave me confirmation of what I had found out by accident. I had no teachers, guides, anything beyond what you might call Divine inspiration. I followed my heart, questioned, reflected, thought, and so on. I do however realise that I might be the exception as opposed to the rule. From your words I can imagine your feelings. I guess that for me I was just lucky. Mind you so many things have happened to me that conventional wisdom might suggest dont happen that nowadays I just accept it. I will say this though Stepnwolf from your posts here you are clearly making sound progress, so one day you might be in for a pleasant suprise, or two. I can assure you when it happened to me I might have questioned my sanity, but fear did not enter the equation. And I have faced many fears so I do know that sensation. If anything I would call it positively empowering. One thing that I have learnt is that everything happens at the right time. So I would simply enjoy the journey stepnwolf. As a slight but not unrelated tangent, if the internet "noise" about the united nations coming clean this year about aliens/ufos (I am not holding my breath though due to vested interests) has even a modicum of truth to it (I tend to turn off when I read things on internet searches like "secret whistleblower"), you can expect a lot more people will feel their kundalini rise. The reason is to do with the precise moment in human evolution and such open disclosure, and events surrounding it, would turn the tap to "on" so to speak. Suppose that would mean I might have to relocate to New York!! Nah - there is nothing that could be done there that couldn't be done from Oxfordshire, England. Besides our economy could use the boost. Stepnwolf the single biggest key that I have found to all things esoteric is simply to.....shush now it is a big secret...pull your chair closer and listen carefully.........relax. Can't overstate it...relax....relax...relax. I can still feel the pain in my throat the first time, in Oxford when it happened. I was literally simply walking up a road. You seem to have crawled up the same path I took. I also feel it is a more exception to the rule. I wouldnt want to wish this bumpy ride for others to take. It saddens me it was so difficult to come to any type of clear answers. Very sound advice though! Well put. I have heard of Kundalini before, but I dont know much about it. Is the physical sensation related to thoughts? Or more placements of the body?
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Post by stewartedwards on Mar 1, 2014 3:23:37 GMT 9.5
Is the physical sensation related to thoughts? Or more placements of the body? Sammy for me it hurt - not pain, more like something has got stuck in your throat/enlarged adams apple.
Someone else on here once confirmed that is what happens if you aren't trained for it.
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Post by stewartedwards on Mar 1, 2014 3:36:21 GMT 9.5
Sammy you will know when it happens. Once it has happened a couple of times you will begin to feel it flow. And some time after that, at least from my experience, all sorts of esoteric doors will awaken.
However I haven't done much in esoterics since I largely walked away from the masonic world in late 2009 (due mainly to masonic behaviour), so I wouldn't listen to me.
Funnily enough I have started to dabble with Remote Viewing [its Hermetics with a new name from what I can tell from an early dabble]and have got some good public advice from some of the "big names" in the field [ex US Government Remote Viewers and those that they have trained] through facebook, and I appear to have made a good start from the feedback I have been getting from my instincts. But some peoples targets are far easier to penetrate into than others [read that as me being totally useless with some peoples targets - either not penetrating at all or being completely wrong]. While other peoples targets I get a pretty good picture in under a minute, using a method that seemingly shouldn't work (but has for me). that all said I have only been able to do this this week, before that it was a mystery to me.
For safety I invested in Franz Bardons book published last year "The Universal master key" to help keep me on the straight and narrow.
Anyhow Sammy my point is that esoteric development flows well after your Kunalindi has risen.
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Post by sammy on Mar 1, 2014 5:38:29 GMT 9.5
Sammy you will know when it happens. Once it has happened a couple of times you will begin to feel it flow. And some time after that, at least from my experience, all sorts of esoteric doors will awaken. However I haven't done much in esoterics since I largely walked away from the masonic world in late 2009 (due mainly to masonic behaviour), so I wouldn't listen to me. Funnily enough I have started to dabble with Remote Viewing [its Hermetics with a new name from what I can tell from an early dabble]and have got some good public advice from some of the "big names" in the field [ex US Government Remote Viewers and those that they have trained] through facebook, and I appear to have made a good start from the feedback I have been getting from my instincts. But some peoples targets are far easier to penetrate into than others [read that as me being totally useless with some peoples targets - either not penetrating at all or being completely wrong]. While other peoples targets I get a pretty good picture in under a minute, using a method that seemingly shouldn't work (but has for me). that all said I have only been able to do this this week, before that it was a mystery to me. For safety I invested in Franz Bardons book published last year "The Universal master key" to help keep me on the straight and narrow. Anyhow Sammy my point is that esoteric development flows well after your Kunalindi has risen. Thank you for the advice! I will do some more looking into it. I always am listening.
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Post by paul on Mar 1, 2014 6:05:51 GMT 9.5
Many years ago I used to do a kundalini breathing exercise, in secret as is traditional for many spiritual practices. It was a long cycle with breath control, but I got quite good at it. Then one day my body refused to do it, so I stopped the practice. A month later a woman at AMORC approached me and told me that I had damaged my body with such exercises.
Such damage can carry over into following incarnations and can lead to insanity.
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